I asked this same question earlier but didn't explain the situation very thoroughly.?

Question

Okay, my 10 year old son has attention problems in school/home. Just enough to where he has difficulties with staying on task in school but NO extreme behaviors,so on. On the Vineland Adaptive Behavior test the special ed teacher and class teacher put him at an 2.1 year old in receptive communication, 5.0 year old for domestic living and 6.10 year old for interpersonal skills. I had marked him as age appropriate levels across the board. Trust me I answered honestly. I'm the first one to say something is wrong. The only detentions hes gotten in school is from not being able to finsh his class work. What behaviors would he have in school to get those scores? Wouldn't some be very extreme? I am almost thinking that instead of saying we are having a hard time teaching your son they came up with behavior problems. With those scores what would he be like? How does each grouping interact with the other?

Answer 1

Receptive communication skills are the information that is going into his head (so to speak), and how he is processing it. If he has attention problems, it is not unusual to see that they might be expressive language (communication) problems. They sometimes go hand in hand. If he can't pay attention, he's not going to get the information he needs. If he doesn't understand what is going on, his attention will go elsewhere.



As another said, sometimes what you see as a parent isn't always as objective as what an outsider sees. That doesn't mean you didn't answer properly, just from the perspective of a parent.



Is your child a bit "spacy", where he just spaces out on things when talking? How do you have to give him directions? Do you make him repeat them? Does he have problems with two and three step directions? If you asked him to do two or three or four things in succession, would he remember them? Those are the things you have to think about.



I don't think they mean to give him a behavior test to determine if he's a problem. It is more to see where his difficulties come from. It seems the school is using this as a diagnostic tool to find out where his strengths and weakness lie to help remediate them. Have you asked the person who gave him the test to explain everything to you thoroughly? You do have that right to know. You shouldn't be made to feel foolish because you don't know or understand.



If you go to the website for the test, it lists this table to explain the test elements:



Content Description of Vineland-II Teacher Rating Form

Domains & Subdomains Content



"Communication How an individual speaks, understands others, and uses written language "



"Receptive How the student listens and pays attention, and what he or she understands "



Understand that if there are receptive problems, that is different from attention problems. Sometimes these go hand in hand, but receptive language skills can be remediated through a speech therapist. If they are saying he has difficulty in this area, you should ask for a speech therapist to test him for receptive language difficulties.



ADD/ADHD can only be diagnosed by a medical doctor, because if there is medicine involved, it has to be prescribed by a doctor. While a regular pediatriatian can do those things, most times a neurologist or psychriast specializing in ADD/ADHD is the better choice (IMHO) for diagnosing that condition. You can go to some websites to look for a doctor, or even your health insurance carrier. The school may have one that they use to for diagnosing ADD, find out if there are other parents who have taken their children to him/her and what their impression is.



I would ask why he isn't finishing his work. What is making him get off task? That is what this test, I am assuming is trying to determine.



Good luck

Answer 2

It's been along time since I did a Vineland, but I'll see if I can remember. Receptive communication means how well he listens and does what he's told. Domestic living is doing chores around the house, like making his bed and taking out the trash. Does he have chores at home? Does he do what you tell him to do? Yes, sometimes schools label kids that they aren't sure what to do with. But sometimes a kid is a totally different person at home and at school. Mine were, both my own 2 and the ones I taught. If you need better explanations about how your child did on ANY test, go to the school's psychologist or guidance counselor or both or the school board's SpEd liaison. Keep asking til you feel you understand. Ask about this test and why he got what he got. You know your child better than anybody so don't give up til you're satisfied.

Answer 3

Schools cannot diagnose, you need a psychologist trained in development to do so. The schools can however, test children for how they are doing in regards to school efficiency. Since it is very rare to for schools to TRY to get someone under the umbrella of special ed because it costs them more money and more time, I would take very seriously their statements. Parents are often not aware of what is appropriate socially etc, and many times what may pass as acceptable at home just is not at school. Receptive communication (rather than receptive behavior, which is what you listed in the last question) is the ability of a child to take in information from someone else and functionally use it. If he's choosing not to follow directions, rather than actually having a learning disorder, the school still has to cover it's butt so that someone can't come in later and say he's a 'child left behind' KWIM?



A two year old receptive skills would put the child at either a)actively listening and not following directions or b) actively listening and inable to answer questions about the material. That's very common in learning disabilities, and with special training could be caught up very quickly.

A five year old for domestic living would be still working on tying shoes, dressing self neatly, buttoning pants and zipping zippers, brushing hair and teeth by self, preparing own snacks etc.

I honestly am not sure about a six year old interpersonal skills, we haven't gotten that far on my daughters vineland...she's still about three.



It doesn't have to be extreme behaviors to get these scores, but slight problems across the board would lead to them. I would really suggest getting a private test, or contesting their scores as they don't match yours, and requesting a test from an outside, unbiased, trained professional. Do this in writing...something like

Dear Principal (and CC counselor who did test as well as teacher)

I am writing in concern to Son's test scores as dated x-x-06. There is a large discrepency between the scores of the teacher and the parent, and I would like to officially request that additional testing be performed by an independent qualified professional. If you would reply to this letter by holiday break, we can plan testing immediately following the holidays and schedule additional IEP meetings.

Thank you for your time

Mom

Answer 4

You have the right to have an independent evaluation of your son's condition.



I agree, the difference in test scores are interesting. The symptoms you are asking about are the same questions asked on the test.



Although, the differences in settings could be a factor, the large discrepency between home and school is unsettling. It is as if you are discussing two totally different children.



Teachers have a conflict of interest in answering these surveys if you ask my opinion. As much as they want what is best for the child as an individual, judgement can become clouded by needs for the group, as well as individual desire for easier workload.



You may have in an independent evaluation at the school's expense. As I have said many times before in these questions, send a specific request in writing. Always send requests in writing and keep a copy for yourself. List the discrepencies between your observation and the school's observation as the reason.



Try to find a nuero-psychiatrist in the area who is not contracted by the schools. Schools tend to select one that has a school bias. Ask around. Question the doctor and staff personally. You will be able to tell which ones are in it for the child. Ask other parents and advocacy groups who they know.



You may want to seek an advocate at this time, as the school and you have very different versions of who your son is. I find it interesting the school has such low scores yet you are not getting day to day notification of problems. Remember, you know your child the best. There is no Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde thing going on, here. If the problems are situation specific there is a legitimate reason. A nuero-psych would help.



Good luck to you.

Answer 5

My hearts with you. Feels like de-ja-vu.

Great advice here. Do request 'in writing' an Independent Evaluation (do your homework- be sure they're not affiliated with anyone from the district or find/request using your own- their refusal would have to be in writing to you, called Prior Written Notice.) Also, request 'in writing' a Speech Assessment due to suspected impairments of receptive communication skills. An Occupational Therapy Assessment to address issues related to fine motor, gross motor, visiomotor, etc.. functioning. Lastly, a Functional Behavior Assessment, to establish a visual of his day. Typically an observer completes a scatterplot recording: actions, language, etc. for every 2-10 minutes of a day. The evaluation may demonstrate he refuses to complete work because of vision problems, because he has difficulty tracking and processing from board/book to paper, etc.. The FBA should give a bit of info on interpersonal skills you fail to notice at home and staff have (perhaps) held back. Your scores also fail to distinquish between 'ability' and 'actual achievement (or functioning)'. Did they not do an IQ? I'm thinking since you said you were the first one to say anything was wrong that your son is more behaviorally passive than aggressive explaining his not getting into trouble at school. This could also be symptomatic of ADD. In any event, place the wording, "I suspect my son is a child with a disability in accordance to IDEIA" somewhere in the letters you send. A neuropsyche would be best for the ADD dx as absence seizures are also sometimes evident of the same symptoms. Along with motor skill development, the Occupational Therapist can identify sensory issues should they exist. DON'T SIGN ANYTHING you don't fully understand and/or agree. You never have to sign an IEP or consent if you choose not to. Ask them to stop disciplining your son for not completing work their evaluation reflects a likely deficit. Ask them what his norm is? How frequently does he not complete his work? Assuming, until they complete the Indep Eval, his lag is due to a Specific Learning Disability or Other Health Impaired disabiliy, tell them you'd like to see his amount of work modified to completing every other question (1/2). Or, have him graded on what he gets done so long as he deligently works.

Answer 6

If you don't believe those test scores actively reflect your son's behavior, I would fight this. I have a younger sister who has special needs and the teachers and other school employees will lie and do almost anything else to get out of giving her the education she needs, just because they don't want to spend time or money on her. Most recently, they had a meeting to discuss her progress and their plans for her next year of school, and they told my parents the wrong time so they'd show up to the meeting late. Don't accept what the teachers tell you, they may have ulterior motives that you know nothing about. Go get your son tested somewhere else by people who can be objective.

Answer 7

Low receptive skills would mean he doesn't understand what is being spoken to him. So he isn't responding to the teachers questions or requests or at least doesn't seem to understand what is being asked of him



Low domestic living skills are poor self help skills. He would demonstrate little ability to do things for himself and need a lot of assistance from the teachers to do things like this.



Low interpersonal skills means he has difficulty getting along with peers/adults, initiating and maintaing relationships with peers/adults and coping with social situations.



If he does fine with these things while at home I'm not sure why such the regression at school. I would ask his teacher to give you specific examples of these behaviors at school. To be fair his previous teacher (from last year) should have filled out the scales as well.

Answer 8

Hi again,

I have to tell you that after reading the answer from "Melissa", there is not much more that needs to be said. (But I will anyways!) Please, follow her advice, and as quickly as possible in order to avoid future problems. Schools do not like it when parent's do not agree with their infinite wisdom, however, no one, I repeat, NO ONE knows the child as well as the parent. Your input is necessary in order for them to get a more accurate "picture" of your son. You did not say whether or not he receives services for special education, you just said they tested him. Unfortunately there is still some missing information. If he is receiving services, everything is different, if he is not, do you think he should be tested for it? Do they have a school counselor or someone you can trust within the district to talk to, even another teacher, either way, do not let it go, I think you are awesome for taking the time to understand what is going on with your child. Many parent's do not, those are the ones that slip through the cracks. Since your son is only 10, at this point, you are his best advocate, be there for him, and challenge what is taking place. Keep up the good work!

Answer 9

I think that there are great answers on the board, but I just have to say that it is soooooo unlikely that you would have a child that has a two year old level for receptive communication, but a six year old level for interpersonal skills. That just doesn't match up. Wouldn't his interpersonal skills be much younger? Go and have him evaluated privately.

Answer 10

Instead of seeking out answers at the school, take him to his pediatrician. They are better qualified to recognize & diagnose a learning diability or behavioral problem (such as Attention Deficit Disorder) than school teachers or counselors. At the very least, he can refer you to a specialist who can do much better testing and come up with an accurate diagnosis and an effective means for treating your son and getting him back on track in school. The sooner you do this, the better.

Answer 11

I would question the teachers about their marking of the test and ask them to explain the specific high marks. I had a similiar situation with my ds about the test, and found that kind of scoring from my ds' teacher. I asked her to explain the discrepancy between our low marks and her high marks.



Some of the reasons for high scores were things like he was "stressed before exams" (well who doesn't get stressed out before exams???), and he was "aggressive" she considered when he was playing sports. We've been watching him play sports for years and the teacher considered a very good athlete defensive and offensive player which he is, aggressive, for example. But anyway, it turned out all the high scores were kind of things that most every average kid would be considered, and she just kind of marked them, in a kind of skewed way, which led to high scores. So I would definitely talk to the teachers to see if it is something like that in your case as well.



Karen

Answer 12

talk to ur doctor he may have ADD.